Need tri coat help!

[Bigdan1928]

Hey guys. Im getting ready to do my flames on my rd 99 nustang and had to fix some dents first.I went this moring to get my base and he gave me 2 bases?On is red and the other is mor of a purple red.Im using dbc2000.In the pastwhen i blend base clear i spray on my base 1 to 1 to 1with blending clear and reducer.Di do the same with boath bases?Also he labled them top and bottom. Im guessing that the bottom goes on first and then the top?How do I get the match the same and a good blend?How many coats of each do I use?The car is a Torch red and th spots are finished off in a dark grey epoxysealer so I need good coverage.Also, im not painting any whole pannels, just spots.Any help would be goos. Thanks Big Dan

 

[TAZ]

Dan,
I've worked at a few Ford dealerships and I am trying to remember what the code to the 3 stage could be. I know they had E9 which was lazer red tinted clearcoat, then they and another which was a 3 stage "bright red" code E8. My guess is that it is E8, especially since you didn't mention metallic in the two mixes.

Hopefully I am right. Most of the below pertains to that particular color code.
Some mixing systems make this a 2 stage color, and some systems make it a three stage. I would like to see you find a system that has a 2 stage. I believe PPG global was a 2 stage mix.
If you can...you might want to take the paints back (if they will, fat chance though) ,and see if they will find you a basecoat/clearcoat system that is a 2 stage mix.
This will make the process much easier, especially since you haven't tried the 3 stage paint before.
Whichever way you end up doing, be sure and use a light gray sealer or base under the red. Reds are very transparent. It is very hard to get a dark spot covered. If you already have the dark gray sealer, possibly you can just spray a light bray basecoat. But you must use a light colored base or sealer.

*If* you do end up doing a three stage, use the light sealer for the spots, blend out the first base real good (Don't just try covering the spot and leaving it, you must blend this so it is nice a subtle, then you blend out the top color. Then of course, clear all. Tack in between coats, to keep the ends of the blends from getting grainy.

If you have spots real close together, you might as well, spray the light gray sealer and make it one big spot.
Also be sure and tack the complete panel(s) before clearing.

If you are flaming the panels, you can do this before you clear, be sure and get the flames done within 24 hours so you won't have an adhesion problem (or you can spray an adhesion promoter to take care of this). If you can't do this. Clear the panels, resand with 600 DA, then your good to go for the flames.
No hurry then.

Hope this helps you along!
Good Luck!!!!

 

[Bigdan1928]

Thanks scott!E8 is right,your good.I looked for a 2 stage but dont mind I need to learn more on the 3 stage anyway.Ill flame it soon after so no clear yet.One more question is how far should I take the bases past the repair spot?And should i use the blending clear in boath of the two stages?Like I said, Ive done tons of blends and they all look good, but this is my car and i dont have the time to mess up.Also, i want my flames to be of the ghoast sense but still stand out well, I have some red, white, gold, and blue pearls from my last 2 flame jobs, will any of these not stand out on my red?I like the light black outline and slightly darker red in the middle flames i saw on one of your jobs.How do you ''black'' the edges and get that slightly darker pearl red inside the licks.Whats the order you spray yor paints?Thank for all your help so soon, im spraying them in the moring.Big Dan

 

[TAZ]

You will need to blend the first color very good, as though this is the final color. No need for special clears between, just spray the first, then spray the second, just make sure you don't get the outer edges "dry". It's not real hard to do, you just need to apply it on normal. Once the first blend is good, then blend out the second.

I have a 2002 Vette coming in soon that is bright red (Torch Red). I will be doing a ghost flame job using a white pearl/silver mix. This would look excellent on yours as well. I use an air brush to spray just the edges to give it more of a "smoked" look to it. I always put a coat of base clear over the flames if I ghost them in. This helps keep the "fade" or smoked edges in place (so they don't smear or wipe off).

I would kind of stay away from the "blue pearl" over a bright red, you will end up with a "pink"

look to it. Remember Ford had a color about 5 years back that looked red, but when the light hit it, it turned a bluish/pink? This was basically a bright red, with blue pearl in it

My choice would be about a 75/25 mix of silver metallic and white pearl (hopefully you have some silver and some pearl on hand or can get some). Kind of the same idea as number 123 in the Samples of Work section. I used 1/3 white pearl, 1/3 blue pearl, and 1/3 aluminum flake. Outstanding effects over the white pearl. Can't get good pictures of it. Nice and subtle pearl changes.

 

[rex]

Bigdan,it's a little fun but since you're a painter it wont be a big deal.I've only done 2 but they came out fine.First do a letdown panel to see how many coats it'll take to match.If it comes up in between 2 you can clear down the tinted clear with DBC500 to make it 1/2 strength.I used the 500 in the base color to blow the blend real fine,put the tinted clear over it and then on the last coat I had a mix with 500 to stretch it out over the original.These colors should be zone painted,like blow the side and lose it on the top of the fender and 1/4,but that's a pain.The big thing is pay close attention to where your first base blend is so you dont go past it and pile up the 'candy' over the original and get a dark ring.The 2stage formula for E9 is pretty close,but a Chrysler red I just did last week was a mile off.They'll always look a little off because you can't get the depth in 2 stage but a few are close enough people other than us can't tell.We're our own worst enemies,I've had a few blends that just wouldn't cooperate but others couldn't see it without me showing it to them.Drives me nuts sometimes.Hey,is that E8 a solid red,no pearl or metalic in it?What an idea that one was!

 

[Bigdan1928]

Yea, its a solid color.I never dreamad of it being a 3 stage.Im on a tight rope with time so ill shoot it sunday.I have always used 5oo in my blends but wasnt sure if boath bases were like each other. From what I can make of it,it no diferent than spraying 2 bases only the second is more transparent so you can ''adjust'' the tint.I got more spots to do[hail damage] but I want to get it right before I go and shoot the roof and deck lid.Im just doing the hood, fenders and doors to rid the dings for my flame job.Hey Rex, I saw you use 2000. Can I add a little of that 2nd base[transparent purple] to my flame color[pearl and blending base?]I think itd give me that slightly darker flame color im after. Im shooting for a flame thats slighty darker and pearl than my body color.Being that its a bright red,i want the flames to look slightly tinted and heavy pearl.Thanks for all your help. Big Dan

 

[rex]

First time I saw a 3stage that was solid I couldn't believe it,what a waste of time.They do have a look about them but I didn't think it was worth it.Mixing the 'candy' in your pearl would be fine.If it doesn't darken up the way you want put a few drops of black in it,but go slow,there isn't much color in the candy.I made a pint for that Chrysler and there was about 15 or so parts of color and the clear topped it off to 500 parts.The black tint (DMD1687?) is weak but I'd still go a drop at a time per pint if you do it.

 

[Bigdan1928]

WE dont have a mixing system at work.Can I use black dbc2000?The object of the ''candy'' in the flame color is just to change it up to a darker red.Will the black base drops work?

 

[rex]

Sorry for the delay.The black DBC you have will work fine.Any of the colors mixed in DBC can be blended together,but you have to watch what's what with the DBU.In PPGs mixing system there's 2 different tints.The main tints will make DBC or DBU and you add in the appropriate binder,but there are a selection of tints that are DBC specific.THey're kind of nice because you don't need binder in them so you can just pour some out and reduce it.Don't mean to confuse you with trivia,as long as the can says DBC mix and play all you want.

 

[Bigdan1928]

All I use is dbc on cars.I blended that red out and it looks perfect!Better than I thought it would.I kept the cand perfectly over the base ans blew the edges out with a little 500 and you cant even tell!Thanks for all the help Rex ANd Scott. Big Dan

 

[rex]

Knew you'd do it man,I was a nervous wreck on my first with illusions of a redo and blowing a whole zone.