Help doing a blue black custom painted area

[DrGrafix]

Since I'm not a painter, just an enthusiastic designer and truck owner... I tend to look at all kinds of approaches, especially for something as personal as my truck LOL. Well, the time has come to take the big step. I've looked at a gazillion ideas online, watched videos, been to a lot of shows and cruise nights, and I decided that I want to do something not as "flamboyant" (no pun intended) and I'd like to get some opinions on what I want to do and how exactly to do it. So my all black truck has a cowl hood (Harwood) and a fiberglass tonneau (Gaylord Speedstur) that has a built in spoiler lip. After lots of sketches and discussion with my wife, I'm going to go black and blue. Thinking we'll paint the cowl section of the hood blue and since it is a SVT Lightning... going to create a half-inch wide silver lightning bolt sort of trim line, thinking I'd have the painter add just a slight amount of flake in the bolt clear. Want to carry the theme backwards on the tonneau, but not on the tailgate. I was able to get it looking great on the hood, but the tail shot is the wrong angle I'm thinking. Have to shoot from the roof!!!




I'm sort of shooting in the dark here as I am not knowledgeable enough to know how to get that effect of the "lighter" ghost flame other than thinking is an additive of pearl? The main color is called Sonic Blue by Ford, its not a 3-stage paint but theres a lot of stuff in it. Think it lists for $300/Gallon LOL. Some reference to it also calls it Sonic Blue Pearl... but I don't think theres any pearl in the blue. Its a killer color and I think on black it will look incredible. Getting the correct paint mixed is one part of this project. The other part is to create the mask for the flames. I'm pretty handy with Photoshop and CorelDraw... so I can probably design the mask, but here again, I'm asking for advice. The design will be a flip-flop on the RH and LH side of the cowl... I'd also like some of the same treatment on the side of the cowl since its about 4" high on a slight angle. Also, would a quart be enough to do the cowl and tonneau as described? Alternate paints are OK, my shop has done HoK paint before and they do a beautiful job.

Should I be thinking about some kind of frisket paper or is there some way to transfer the design from a semi rigid template? By template, I mean, have the pattern printed on a wide body commercial inkjet in black line, then use an exacto to cut out the pattern. Then there's the silver border, and my wanting a small amount of flake in the clear over the silver. Does that sound right? Once the "bolt" is finished and the flame pattern is done... a final clear coat right? You guys are the experts... any/all feedback is appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the help. Probably get my shop to start on the blue and silver this week or at least drop off the tonneau as they already have the Harwood, I'm driving with the stock hood right now. They are a little nervous with flames so I either have to figure this out and do it myself, or bring in somebody local who has done some flame work.

Mike

 

[JT Airbrush]

I think the easiest method to layout your flames is to have them cut on a plotter using paint mask vinyl. This will save you from cutting directly on the clear coat and it will give you a perfect left and right mirror image. The other method would be to lay them out using fine line tape. With this method, you will need to layout one side, copy it by laying a piece of paper over the tape, rubbing with a crayon, then use a pounce wheel, flip over the paper, then pounce it with some chalk and then layout the fine line tape on the other side. As you can see, cutting the flames on a plotter is just a bit easier. If you can design the flames in Corel Draw or AI, save it as and EPS file and take it to a sign shop and ask them to cut it in paint mask vinyl. The most common method of spraying ghost flames is to put some pearl in intercoat clear like SG100 or DBC500, but there are other methods. Some add a touch of black to the base color. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make some test panels and see what method gives you the ghost flames you like best.

 

[TAZ]

I would suggest doing the main area in a charcoal color (possibly BC03). Then do the tribals/flames in silver. Then coat the complete area with candy blue., This would give you the look more like in the picture.

Basically, for this idea, you would mask prep the hood (1000 grit wet would be fine).
Mask up the big area. Spray the area in the charcoal. Then mask up for the flames. Spray them silver. Pull all the paper off. First coat spray the area blue. Second coat, spray a second coat, but go slightly larger. Third coat do the same. Forth coat should give you the rich deep look. Then clearcoat the complete hood.
Let dry overnight or a couple days. Resand with 600DA, and wetsand with 1000 grit. Then add your graphics, and reclear again.

Or go with the Sonic blue and use a pearl over the Sonic Blue for the tribals. This would be a little bit easier for you than the above.


Another way of doing the job is do it in reverse.
Basically with one of the jobs above. Prep the hood, mask up the bigger area, spray it all silver. Then mask up the flames. Then spray the main section color (either the charcoal or sonic blue)
This will eliminate those nasty edges that will end up on the silver flames if you decide to do them 'after' the main base color.

No matter which way you go, you'll probably find that you will need to clearcoat the hood at least twice maybe even three times especially since you are going with silver and a smaller flake for the lightning tribals. Personally, I would just bypass the metaflake on those stripes. Those are pretty thin stripes to put this on. This 'may' also eliminate the need for a third clearing.

This first suggestion would be richer and deeper looking though.

$300 for a gallon is a decent price. Normally the cheaper brands run about this price.
Better brands would run $500-$800 a gallon (the paint for my brown montego you see in my Avatar ran $240/quart - 2012 Toyota/Lexus Sunset Bronze Mica).
I think HOK basecoats run about $80 a quart along with the candies running the same.
I would suggest using BC05 in your case

If you go with the Sonic Blue, 1 quart would be plenty. This runs about $140 for a decent brand.
You have to watch some of the cheaper paints. If the color you choose has a 'cool' looking pearl in it, a lot of times the cheaper brands do not have the special pearls

 

[DrGrafix]

I think the easiest method to layout your flames is to have them cut on a plotter using paint mask vinyl. This will save you from cutting directly on the clear coat and it will give you a perfect left and right mirror image. The other method would be to lay them out using fine line tape. With this method, you will need to layout one side, copy it by laying a piece of paper over the tape, rubbing with a crayon, then use a pounce wheel, flip over the paper, then pounce it with some chalk and then layout the fine line tape on the other side. As you can see, cutting the flames on a plotter is just a bit easier. If you can design the flames in Corel Draw or AI, save it as and EPS file and take it to a sign shop and ask them to cut it in paint mask vinyl. The most common method of spraying ghost flames is to put some pearl in intercoat clear like SG100 or DBC500, but there are other methods. Some add a touch of black to the base color. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make some test panels and see what method gives you the ghost flames you like best.

I would suggest doing the main area in a charcoal color (possibly BC03). Then do the tribals/flames in silver. Then coat the complete area with candy blue., This would give you the look more like in the picture.

Basically, for this idea, you would mask prep the hood (1000 grit wet would be fine).
Mask up the big area. Spray the area in the charcoal. Then mask up for the flames. Spray them silver. Pull all the paper off. First coat spray the area blue. Second coat, spray a second coat, but go slightly larger. Third coat do the same. Forth coat should give you the rich deep look. Then clearcoat the complete hood.
Let dry overnight or a couple days. Resand with 600DA, and wetsand with 1000 grit. Then add your graphics, and reclear again.

Or go with the Sonic blue and use a pearl over the Sonic Blue for the tribals. This would be a little bit easier for you than the above.


Another way of doing the job is do it in reverse.
Basically with one of the jobs above. Prep the hood, mask up the bigger area, spray it all silver. Then mask up the flames. Then spray the main section color (either the charcoal or sonic blue)
This will eliminate those nasty edges that will end up on the silver flames if you decide to do them 'after' the main base color.

No matter which way you go, you'll probably find that you will need to clearcoat the hood at least twice maybe even three times especially since you are going with silver and a smaller flake for the lightning tribals. Personally, I would just bypass the metaflake on those stripes. Those are pretty thin stripes to put this on. This 'may' also eliminate the need for a third clearing.

This first suggestion would be richer and deeper looking though.

$300 for a gallon is a decent price. Normally the cheaper brands run about this price.
Better brands would run $500-$800 a gallon (the paint for my brown montego you see in my Avatar ran $240/quart - 2012 Toyota/Lexus Sunset Bronze Mica).
I think HOK basecoats run about $80 a quart along with the candies running the same.
I would suggest using BC05 in your case

If you go with the Sonic Blue, 1 quart would be plenty. This runs about $140 for a decent brand.
You have to watch some of the cheaper paints. If the color you choose has a 'cool' looking pearl in it, a lot of times the cheaper brands do not have the special pearls

I think I've found a guy who can do this job for me. Might be the 2nd method you suggested Taz... prep the hood and tonneau which my guy says he will want to block the tonneau prime and paint to make sure it looks right when done. Probably will reshoot the black at least to just past the bolt pattern. Then mask off the reverse dust the edges with silver. Once dry, mask off the main blue areas and paint with a nice PPG metallic blue like Viper Blue or Ford's Sonic Blue. Once thats done, lay on the flame mask and use pearl additive to ghost in the flames. And you're right, probably 2-3 coats of clear to get it nice and smooth over the various stages. He's on vacation next week, so I'll meet with him on the 4th. In the meantime, I have to do some research on the plotter type paint mask you guys have talked about.

JT.. Are there any sources online where I could send a vector file and they could create the mask? Or is it just a particular material that any sign shop with a plotter could cut? I can certainly create the pattern with coreldraw and even have it printed on plain paper to use as a guide but my painter said it would be even more efficient if he actually had a pre-cut mask.

He said the paint could run up to $500 for everything from prime to clear with everything in-between.

Mike

 

[chopolds]

Not to get insulting about using vinyl, or computers to do masks, but it really isn't that difficult to lay out flames in fine line, then use 3/4 masking tape around that, and paper in the rest. By doing it this way, you get a feel for the proportions of the job, the size and flow of the flames themselves, and the design, actually ON the part, to see if is enough, or too much, and can be changed easily "on the fly".
I've seen some vinyl flames, a guy put them on a gorgeous 54 Chevy I sold him, and they looked hideous! Both in style, placement, Oh, and in color, as well!Not saying all vinyl guys are like that, but.......

 

[JT Airbrush]

Any sign shop with a vinyl cutter can cut it. I use Avery white paint mask vinyl. Oracal also makes a good paint mask vinyl. I think Oracal's vinyl are called 810, 810s, 811, 813. They all have different characteristics. Not all sign shops stock paint mask, so you may need to look around for one who does or buy a roll and give it to a shop. Creating the vector art is where all the cost is incurred, so if you do that yourself you'll save a lot of money.

 

[JT Airbrush]

I actually agree with Chopplds. Laying out flames with fine line is the better way to go, but it takes some practice to lay out nice flowing flames. Get a roll of 1/4" fine line tape and give it a try. Btw, try FBS tape instead of 3m. Much better.

 

[DrGrafix]

I think the easiest method to layout your flames is to have them cut on a plotter using paint mask vinyl. This will save you from cutting directly on the clear coat and it will give you a perfect left and right mirror image. The other method would be to lay them out using fine line tape. With this method, you will need to layout one side, copy it by laying a piece of paper over the tape, rubbing with a crayon, then use a pounce wheel, flip over the paper, then pounce it with some chalk and then layout the fine line tape on the other side. As you can see, cutting the flames on a plotter is just a bit easier. If you can design the flames in Corel Draw or AI, save it as and EPS file and take it to a sign shop and ask them to cut it in paint mask vinyl. The most common method of spraying ghost flames is to put some pearl in intercoat clear like SG100 or DBC500, but there are other methods. Some add a touch of black to the base color. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make some test panels and see what method gives you the ghost flames you like best.

I have been playing around with 1/4" tape, might go with tape if I can't do the mask method. Actually, what I'll probably do is lay out a roll/sheet of white kraft paper or something I can buy locally at Michaels... hopefully a roll say 30" wide minimum and 6 feet long, tape it to a wall and then create some reference points. Then I'll try to sketch it out freehand which is something I do have the skills for LOL... and tighten that up. Could also cut out the negative with an exacto and we can refine that with the edge of the tape overlapping the pattern. Or we could try the pounce method.

Not giving up on the vinyl paint mask either. It could work out fine if I do a sketch in full-size then transfer the sketch to a vector file. The "flame" areas are pretty much dead flat on the tonneau, flat in one dimension on the cowl but its a gentle curve from the back to the front... no compound curves. Its going to be interesting LOL.

 

[TAZ]

JT.. Are there any sources online where I could send a vector file and they could create the mask? Or is it just a particular material that any sign shop with a plotter could cut? I can certainly create the pattern with coreldraw and even have it printed on plain paper to use as a guide but my painter said it would be even more efficient if he actually had a pre-cut mask.

Like JT said, try a local sign shop. They should be able to do this on a plotter. Be sure and take the max dimensions that you would want.
I thought quite a while ago, I saw flame stencil kits available for cars and trucks. Probably gets shipped in a tube. Check that out to.

Do not use vinyl as the stencil. Use Gerbermask (it's low tack)
If you don't plan on using tape to fill in the flames (or mask off for the flames), you an use Sticky Mickeys or some other type of transfer tape

Personally, the way I would go about this job is like chopolds and JT said. Since you are having a painter do this, have him lay out the flames (I'm sure he's doe this before), then just fill in the voids with 3/4 and 1 1/2" tape.
I personally would use 1/8" (I use 1/16" on motorcycles)
I'm sure he's done a flame job before, but not everyone likes someone elses flame style so check out 'his' first.

 

[JT Airbrush]

Here's a video with Ryno teaching how to lay out flames. He makes it look easy and provides some very good tips and tricks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NCisrORES4

 

[TAZ]

Good video. Looks like a cool class.

 

[JT Airbrush]

Here's a goalie mask I airbrushed with a ghosted effect. I started with a black base coat, sprayed fine silver on top, masked my design, sprayed green candy, then removed the masking and sprayed some more green candy over the entire area. If you want it more ghosted, just spray fewer initial coats of the candy so the design and surrounding colors will be closer in value. This is just another method of achieving a ghosted effect.

 

[DrGrafix]

Hey Taz...

My painter has a local sign shop that has cut some masks for him using the Avery material. Not flames, but its all worked. She's limited to 15" wide roll which is not a problem since what I designed is a flip-flop that measures 28" wide at the max. I also sent her a small test sample Corel flame file saved as an AI file and she said it opened just fine. Just out of curiosity, how much does your sign shop charge for a mask? I assume they do it by the square feet?

Incidentally, the pain I settled on was PPG Midnight Blue Pearl. Chris did a couple of spray outs with the blue, black, and silver with the ghost flame, first one looked good, but the ghost flame was a little strong. Second spray out was much nicer... think he said three passes. I decided that the silver will not touch the blue, and it'll taper from 1/8" at the front of the hood to 1/4" at the first "bolt" where the two overlap for about 3". We laid it out with tape on the primed tonneau and it looked great. As you can see, the flame he taped in was a little strong. If you look hard you can see another flame going out on the black but I nixed that. Where it crosses the blue is skoosh weaker than the 2nd spray out which I forgot to take a picture of. He was just trying it out using the exact paints. The silver is a HOK I believe. Lot of nice reflections in the PPG blue. -Mike

 

[TAZ]

I think that looks great. I like the blue against the black.
You can also over-reduce the silver to make it more ghost. You can also add some base clear (interclear) like SG-100 to help it out. You don't want to do to many passes since it will make a knarly edge.
If he has an airbrush, it would look good if he could airbrush just the edges of the flames, and not spray the complete flame. This also would give it more of a ghost effect. With flames that big, he could even use a jam gun to spray just the edges.
I like the gap between the bolt and the blue.

Lookin good

My sign guy went out of business so I don't have one anymore. I stocked up on the stencils I use. I do have a plotter, but not too good with the vector art.