Skulls inside ghost flames, black on black with a satin finish, Need serious help!

[crpehdm]

I am brand new to the site today, I have very little painting experience besides rattle cans. I am looking to paint the tank and fenders on my bike this winter. I know what I am trying to achieve, but have no idea how to pull it off or what materials to use. I have a buddy helping me who has a small booth in his garage and also the guns, ect. He hasn't done anything more that basic colors with clear so he isn't much help with the effects that I'll need to use. I am hoping you guys can help.

That I am trying to accomplish is a black paint job with very very faint black or graphite ghost flames. I also have an artist friend who is going to air brush sculls into the flames for me. My idea was to base coat the tank in my black, then reverse mask the flames. Then using a silver or graphite metallic or pearl paint, my friend will work his magic painting the skulls and smoke into the flame area (on top of the black base). Next I will need to ghost the flame artwork, I was thinking to spray with a black kandy to hide the art work, again I want it very very hidden so that only the sunlight will let it show up close. The final step would be to unmask and clear everything. I want to go with a flat or satin finish. After rereading this I am wondering if I should remove the mask before the kandy and kandy the entire tank then clear?

If someone knows how to accomplish this could you please respond with step by step instructions including inter clears, wet sanding, ect, ect. Also include materials I should be using, paint codes, brands ect....

I will attach some images that I have researched to help explain the look I am going for. The first image shows the ghost flames in the satin and the second is an example of the artwork to be added. I basically want to have it look like the 2nd image only ghosted.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I am very new to this don't worry about talking to me like an idiot, cause that's basically my painting knowledge.

Thanks in advance, going to go search the site some more.

 

[TAZ]

Welcome!
If you want something very subtle, the artwork will need to be airbrushed using colors that will show up subtle. Sounds like you will need to use some silver and white pearl or even a mix. I haven't heard of a black candy.
Your airbrush guy will have to just airbrush some very subtle graphics. You 'might' be able to spray a couple coats of over-reduced black over the graphics if you feel they are too bright. Then they will need to clearcoat with regular gloss clear, then resand 'flat', then reclear with either a satin or flat clear of your choice. You should do test panels on the clear to get the gloss that you want. the more flattening agent you put in clear. the flatter the clear comes out. A LOT of steps and materials, but it does look sweet in the end.

 

[crpehdm]

Thank you for the advice. Just a few questions to clarify things for me. After my guy does the artwork do we peel the masking off and clear the flames and the black or do I leave the masking and just clear the flames? How many coats of regular gloss clear do I put on and do I wet sand between each coat?

Is it easier to create subtle art work using the white pearl on black or should I start with a silver or white base coat for the flames and use different reduced blacks for the artwork? Is there a black pearl that I could put over say a silver base flame?

Also the painting will take place in 2 different locations. I will do the sealer/primer and base coat in our garage booth. When that is done do I need to apply any clear or anything before I tape out the flames? After I have the flames taped out I will give it to my airbrush guy, what should he do to prep/clean the surface before he starts the art work? When he is done should I get him to spray something over the art work before he gives it back to me to peel the masking? What steps should I take once I get it back before I peel the mask and do the regular gloss clear, sand flat and reclear in satin?

I hope that makes sense!

 

[TAZ]

You didn't say how long of a timeframe it would be from the time you do the base to the time the airbrush guy will starting the artwork.
Assuming it will be more than a few days, here are the steps I would do...

• prep all parts, seal and base
• clearcoat (let it dry for a day or 2)
• resand with 600 grit, then you can wetsand it
• layout your flames and mask around the flames
• give it to your airbrush guy, let him do his airbrush work
• let him pull off all the mask just to make sure there are no flaws on the edges that he would need to repair.
• He "should" put a coat of interclear over the flames, artwork and base. This will help protect the flames/skulls
• Once he gives it back to you, you will need to clear with gloss clear (about 2-3 coats. Not for sure how heavy of coats you spray)
• Resand FLAT with 600, then 1000 grit (watch the sharp edges with the DA when you use the 600)
• Reclear with the clear with the flattening agent
  
  That should do it!
  
  Good luck. Be sure and post pics when you are done.

 

[crpehdm]

Thank you once again... That is exactly the breakdown I needed. Any suggestions on product? From the research that I have done I am leaning towards the PPG brand.

Black Base - Deltron 2000, DBC9700
Gun Metal pearl - Dye with DBC500
Silver metallic pearl - Dye with DBC500
Black Candy - DMX219 with DBC500
Gloss Clear - DBC500
Flat Clear - Flexed and Flat, DCU2060

Has anyone worked with these? Are they good products? Is there something better?

*EDIT* - I have changed the Pearl, and gloss clear as per your suggestions and also added the black candy! Thanks Guys!

 

[Strawberry Woods]

No black candy but if you use dbc500 or another innercoat clear you can thin a regular black base while keeping the normal viscosity. I use this for smoking tail lights. I also use this to do my fades so a very gradual fine change of color.

 

[chopolds]

Pretty good advice. I don't know if I'd use a white or silver pearl, as it may be too noticable. But a purple, blue, or red flip flop pearl, reduced down a bit, will be more subtle. You'd have to do test pieces to get the "subtlety" right.
You can get black candy from either Alsa Corp. (the ones who make that fake chrome paint) or Sid Moses, Seelig Custom Paint, if he's still in business. It would work to darken your pearl graphics if necessary.

 

[Wydir]

PPG has A Black Candy Dye DMX219 , Also the DBC9700 is just straight up DMD1683 Black Toner

Another question Whats the 2021 for? If you want to clear your art work, You should use DBC500 as this is what its made for.

 

[crpehdm]

You Guys are the best, Love this forum! What product do I mix with the DMX219? I am thinking a silver, grey or charcoal pearl for the Graphics and then the DMX219 to knock the art back. Are you recommending the DMD1683 instead of the DBC9700? And the 2021 is just me not knowing what I am doing, I'll use the DBC500!

For the pearl... I found a Metallic gun metal grey pearl pigment, and some silver pearl pigment. They come in 25g bags, what do I mix that into and in what ratio? How much will I need to do a tank and 2 fenders? I am assuming it's just a clear I use, possibly the DBC500? [h=1][/h]

 

[Wydir]

DMX dyes are recommended to be mixed at a maximum 20 grams Dye to 100 grams of DBC500
PRL pearls are recommended to be mixed at a maximum 12 grams pearl to 100 grams of DBC500

the Difference between DBC9700 and DMD1683

DBC9700 is Mixed 2:1
DMD1683 is Mixed 1:1

so DBC9700 is already partially reduced.

 

[crpehdm]

Thought I would post a pic of my bike so you can see what this project is for.

Painting the tank, both fenders and the side panels in the flat black. Engine is a textured black satin, Rims are carbon fiber (may hit them with the flat clear?)
Also switching over to a suicide shift, and possibly short straight pipes, with a black wrap to tie in the rat rod flat black look!

How do you guys feel about white wall tires?

 

[TAZ]

Gonna be sharp!
I think just the all black tires will look the best. BUT if you want more of a rat rod old school look, then the white walls.

:cheers: