Orange Peel
- Thread starter Stretch
- Start date
M
mr. krinkle
Guest
I have experimented with spray distance quite a bit lately and I have found that my best results come when I spray from about 9 to 11 inches away from the panel. The greater the distance you are away from the panel, the better the atomization will be, which is what you're looking for. You have to move pretty slow to get the right amount of clear on the panel.
A good spray gun can help a lot too. I have tried a few "top notch" guns and my favorite is the DeVilbiss GTI Milleneum. I get great atomization with a 1.3 fluid tip.
I have been getting great results with this method. I hope you do to.
I spray PPG Concept 2042 Clear with DX61 hardener.
A good spray gun can help a lot too. I have tried a few "top notch" guns and my favorite is the DeVilbiss GTI Milleneum. I get great atomization with a 1.3 fluid tip.
I have been getting great results with this method. I hope you do to.
I spray PPG Concept 2042 Clear with DX61 hardener.
Hello All-
I know there are quite a few threads on here about orange peel but I wanted to share my experience, hopefully it can help some other newbies. I had been having some trouble with orange peel and spent hours reading on all the causes. Being new to HVLPs I was convinced I had the settings mis-adjusted or the wrong air pressure.
I spent some time spraying some clear this weekend and with some experimentation I found that I could eliminate the orange peel by simply slowing down my passes. From what I can tell, I was moving the gun fast enough that I wasn't putting enough clear down and that caused the orange peel. On my later attempts I put the gun a bit closer to the surface and slowed things down. What I ended up with was a nice smooth wet clear coat! I'm letting it set for a week before a sand it down, cut and polish, but I can tell it's going to work out much better than my previous attempts.
Hopefully this may help some other newbies that are a bit overwhelmed with HVLP settings and orange peel problems.
-Stretch
I know there are quite a few threads on here about orange peel but I wanted to share my experience, hopefully it can help some other newbies. I had been having some trouble with orange peel and spent hours reading on all the causes. Being new to HVLPs I was convinced I had the settings mis-adjusted or the wrong air pressure.
I spent some time spraying some clear this weekend and with some experimentation I found that I could eliminate the orange peel by simply slowing down my passes. From what I can tell, I was moving the gun fast enough that I wasn't putting enough clear down and that caused the orange peel. On my later attempts I put the gun a bit closer to the surface and slowed things down. What I ended up with was a nice smooth wet clear coat! I'm letting it set for a week before a sand it down, cut and polish, but I can tell it's going to work out much better than my previous attempts.
Hopefully this may help some other newbies that are a bit overwhelmed with HVLP settings and orange peel problems.
-Stretch
B
BonesFX
Guest
Stretch - In most cases thats what causes orange peel - just slow down a bit and it will look great. I really don't worry about it that much as I'm sprayin on the first 3 or 4 coats. I will start my clears with less reducer just to help cover up the nasty paint edges. Then on my last coat I'll add some extra reducer and make sure it flows nice - You have to be careful and not go to slow or else sags and runs will get ya'. That used to be my problem - I wanted the first coat to come out perfect and would end up with a mess - experience is your best friend - "success is failure in the form of experience" -- (My own personal quote)
You stated that you were going to wait a week before buffing.... Be very careful with the time you wait - there is an optimum time window for buffing - it all depends on how many coats of clear, tempature and type of clear. I've had jobs in the summer that I'd clear and the next day the were a pain in the butt to sand and buff - The quickest window I had was 6 hours -- My "test" for checking is to press my finger into the clear, if my finger print is still there after say 30 min. then its to soft - on the other hand if it's gone or barely there I'll start my color sanding and buffing - If you get your time right you will save time and money - I've had jobs take a whole qt. of rubbing compound to get them to shine -- Good luck!! -- Bones!~
You stated that you were going to wait a week before buffing.... Be very careful with the time you wait - there is an optimum time window for buffing - it all depends on how many coats of clear, tempature and type of clear. I've had jobs in the summer that I'd clear and the next day the were a pain in the butt to sand and buff - The quickest window I had was 6 hours -- My "test" for checking is to press my finger into the clear, if my finger print is still there after say 30 min. then its to soft - on the other hand if it's gone or barely there I'll start my color sanding and buffing - If you get your time right you will save time and money - I've had jobs take a whole qt. of rubbing compound to get them to shine -- Good luck!! -- Bones!~
Just a thought,if your tendancy is to move fast on a pass slow it down a touch and/or do a 1/3 overlap instead of 1/2.The trick to making it look slick is the temperature selection of the products and the performance of the gun.If you play with them you'll get it because what works for me or anyone else is different than what works for you,just remember the basic rules.I won't mention my medium solids clear practices,but when you find it years later you wonder if you or the rep knew what was what.They're a wealth of info but alot think they're God or the mode is CYA.This sounds like a rant but it's not,sorry again for rambling.
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Envious Interiors
Guest
hey, i know this sounds bad, but i bought an HVLP spray gun setup off of E-bay for about 70 bucks, its a gravity feed, and it looks nice. its a Prime inc./Tristar brand gun. I didnt expect it to perform very well at all. Im a newbie, and dont have the 400 dollars it takes to invest into a nice gun, like the Iwata LPH 400, which is my dream. but, Ive painted 2 cars with it, and am very pleased with the way it turned out. Sure, I have to color sand a little and buff it, but it makes every paint job turn out better that way anywayz. I will eventually invest into a better gun, so there is little to no orange peel, but for now, i dont mind the color sanding practice. thanks for the advice, maybe i can get this cheapo gun to have even less orange peel.
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shaunboy
Guest
What Rex says about temperature selection of the products is I believe the best suggestion in this topic
As in hot weather 'slow hardener an reducer'
Vice versa for cold weather , but me myself dont like any type of extra fast hardeners/reducers when orangepeel is concerned .
this is because they are only designed in the first place for small areas that dont require much attention in the first place , like inside car doors and the like.
A good quality gun will also help immensely in the way the paint is laid down like rex said too
As in hot weather 'slow hardener an reducer'
Vice versa for cold weather , but me myself dont like any type of extra fast hardeners/reducers when orangepeel is concerned .
this is because they are only designed in the first place for small areas that dont require much attention in the first place , like inside car doors and the like.
A good quality gun will also help immensely in the way the paint is laid down like rex said too
Shaunboy,how ya been buddy?Hope the married life is treating you great.Well,I finally got to play with HVLPs in a sense.I finally went to PPG school and that's about all they had.I was going to play with a Sata and Sagola but I spotted an Iwata and fell in love.Very odd gun,it's not really an HVLP but it is kind of like the DeVilbiss Plus.This thing runs on about 18lbs of inlet pressure and will throw a perfect 12" pattern,I was impressed with it so much I'm getting one soon.Take care for now and don't be a stranger.
To add to my last post I found the secret to HVLPs at school.Every HVLP there worked great if it had the right sized tip,the correct temp reducers used,and 10LBS PRESSURE AT THE CAP.This is hard to adjust to if you don't have an expensive aircap guage to fine tune it,but playing with inlet pressure will get it there.Unfortunately the gun maker's max inlet pressure seems to come up a little lower than alot of guns require to get 10lbs.Play with it and when you shoot a test pattern play until the paint droplets at the edge of the pattern are as small as possible,just like any other gun.
To add to my last post I found the secret to HVLPs at school.Every HVLP there worked great if it had the right sized tip,the correct temp reducers used,and 10LBS PRESSURE AT THE CAP.This is hard to adjust to if you don't have an expensive aircap guage to fine tune it,but playing with inlet pressure will get it there.Unfortunately the gun maker's max inlet pressure seems to come up a little lower than alot of guns require to get 10lbs.Play with it and when you shoot a test pattern play until the paint droplets at the edge of the pattern are as small as possible,just like any other gun.
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Envious Interiors
Guest
hey, u know my dream that i posted earlier? it came tru about 2 weeks ago. i was sooooo excited to get it. i mixed up some black paint for a mustang that i was going to shoot, and sprayed my tack coat, then started to spray my second coat. i went to fill my can, and with no air, fluid began to pour out the front. i was sooo ****ed. i adjusted a few things, and was able to spray the rest of the car with the black. then i cleaned the gun and ran off to the store where i bought the gun, and they fixed it. i went back and sprayed my clear, and it gave me a glassy smooth coat of clear. i was really happy. and i picked it up brand new for 325, with the 1 litre cup and a 1.4 tip. so far it works great. i have shot 3 cars with it in the last 2 weeks, and will have 2 more done by monday. with the Iwata, it requires a slower speed, but its great to know that before so you can control your strokes. anyways, just my 2 cents worth.
D
DenB.
Guest
YOU SHOULD ALWAY CONTROL YOUR STROKES
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Duleyman
Guest
When spraying clear it is very important to pay close attention to all the varibles if you want a great looking job, temperature of spray area, and temp. of reducer and making sure they match. Nozzle and air cap on spray gun, along with proper air pressure at cap. Overlapping strokes 1/2 or 1/3 depending on the speed of gun movement, and distance from spray surface. What clear product you are using ( all clears spray different, so find a good one and get used to its properties.) And just plain paying attention to what the hell you are doing! You will get better with each and every clear job if you strive to improve by critiquing your work and asking questions.
Hey Envy,sounds like the needle stuck.Kind of odd for a new gun.Anyway,get some lube.Basically all it is is castor oil but there is a slight difference.Put a drop at the air valve on the bottom of the trigger and another drop on the needle in front and behind the trigger where it goes into the packing or body.Usually you don't have to do it often but if you really soak your gun or use a gun cleaner it dries them out fast.Since I started using a gun cleaner I need to lube mine at least twice a week but for years hand cleaning them I only needed to lube no more than 2 or 3 weeks.
C
ckoski
Guest
I have a different take, on the orange peel problem! I spray about 4in. away, moving extremely fast, with apprx. 75% overlap, the closer you are to the panel, the better the atomization, the farther back the gun is, the bigger the paint droplets are, giving the orange peel, slowing down will make the orange peel better, but will give it that wavy look, I suggest giving it a try on a junk panel, it will give it a very flat look which is very nice, and of course the basecoat has to be sprayed as flat as possible for the clear to layout nice. So keep that in mind!
Welcome to the site.I have to dissagree with you on getting closer with the gun and atomization.Getting that close with the gun is forcing frontend solvents into the paint and I'd be surprised if you don't have dieback problems and extended dry and cure times.Atomization is solely dependant on the gun and thickness of the reduced paint.Using a fast reducer in warm weather throws a kink in it but we won't go there.As long as you keep the gun 12" or less atomization won't be affected-basically.Basically you're percieving better attomization because the frontend solvent hasn't evaporated before the paint hit the surface so it's 'over reduced'.Pull back a little and play with your reducers and you'll see greater results.Does your tack rag get alot of color on it?Alot of people use too fast a reducer,if you go up one step slower your paint will flow better and actually dry faster (that reads correctly).
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ckoski
Guest
Sorry Rex, but I disagree. When your moving very fast, extremely close, your putting on thinner coats so the flash off time is quicker, and there is virtually no die back, if i was moving slow I would definately have problems,with film thickness, dieback, and drying times. and I rarely ever use fast reducer for custom jobs, it doesn't give me the flow that I like. I won top Gun awrd in Atlanta, 2 yrs ago with this technique, and is currently the way I teach people to spray Sikens Paint systems!
I might have to try it for myself but it sure is unconventional.I guess if you're moving fast enough it would offset the problem.Congrats on the award.
Blaino,actually that wasn't stated too well.Once the paint comes out and gets atomized by the cap that's the size the droplet of paint will be if you don't change any settings.The farther away you get the more the droplets can spread out and the closer you get the tighter the droplets are together,the only difference is the lenghth of your pattern gets larger if you move away.If you adjust your speed either way will put on the same amount of paint so the final outcome will be the same.If you change any settings it all starts over.What will change how the paint is attomized is how you set the air pressure,fluid flow and fan size whether it be an HVLP or a conventional gun.Once you get the gun set up for the material you're spraying you've got set atomization. 12" is a pretty large number since you won't be spraying that far and you'd have to crawl to get a wet coat.Normal distance is 6-8".
Blaino,actually that wasn't stated too well.Once the paint comes out and gets atomized by the cap that's the size the droplet of paint will be if you don't change any settings.The farther away you get the more the droplets can spread out and the closer you get the tighter the droplets are together,the only difference is the lenghth of your pattern gets larger if you move away.If you adjust your speed either way will put on the same amount of paint so the final outcome will be the same.If you change any settings it all starts over.What will change how the paint is attomized is how you set the air pressure,fluid flow and fan size whether it be an HVLP or a conventional gun.Once you get the gun set up for the material you're spraying you've got set atomization. 12" is a pretty large number since you won't be spraying that far and you'd have to crawl to get a wet coat.Normal distance is 6-8".
R
rmt1and1
Guest
It is indeed a pleasure to be surrounded by such experts in this field. The experiences and tips that are offered on this website are in a class by themselves. I have been educated to new levels simply by listening to what you gentlemen have to say. In reference to this particular subject and from my own humble, bumblings tend to agree with the 6 to 8 inch rule. The type of gun, settings, clear, temp. and rate of speed are all factors that should be considered. It is true that HLVP most likely need to be a little closer to the surface than conventional for several reasons, yet I know that some people who are simply good can spray with anything and get good results. Not everyone is in that category however, so practice and experience are the best teachers. Oh, and listening to the people on this site can't hurt you either. There are some brilliant people offering wonderful help here. This is better than some classes I have taken.
There's a trick to making HVLPs work.The technical way is find out what the paint manufacturer wants for pressure at the cap and put on an aircap guage and adjust to obtain that,it's not uncommon to have more air going into the gun than the gun says is max.The b!tch is these guages are expensive and are gun specific.The next thing to do is just keep playing with it until you get the best atomization with a good pattern and fluid flow.Takes a little work but it'll get there.When I finally used one that was dialed in the only difference I remember over a conventional gun was the sound kept freaking me out.